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Canadian use of AREDN

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VA7EFZ
Canadian use of AREDN
I have made my first demo units using two GL iNet 150s.  It works really well and was very easy to set up.  I took a couple of photos of it and did a little report for our local club board.  One of the board members was adamant that it was totally illegal and I was breaking all the rules of amateur radio.

I do not want to make it personal but want to present the facts of the matter back to the club board.

It really did ruin my presentation but I do want to push on with a couple of larger units and start to build out from there but do need to counter this with facts.

Can anyone please send me in the right direction to counter this misinformation?

Cheers Scott
VA7EFZ
Salt Spring Island BC

 
nc8q
nc8q's picture
facts of the matter

Scott:

 IMHO, facts will not dissaude an arrogant and willfully ignorant person from maliciously attacking others with false statements.
Perhaps work with other board members who are amenable to facts.
https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf01226.html#t1
Item 23.

I hope this helps.

Chuck

VA7EFZ
Thanks Chuck I had found that
Thanks Chuck I had found that exact page and went over it in detail and yes all the bands are there for our use. 

Scott
ko0ooo
my suggestion
Scott,

ask this board member to list the rules you're breaking, then address them one by one

Richard    ko0ooo
VA7EFZ
Yes good point Richard,  I
Yes good point Richard,  I will do that as part of my rebuttal
VA2XJM
There are many nodes in
There are many nodes in Canada. AREDN respect the law as long as the operators use proper software/settings inside the mesh to ensure no encryption is passed over the mesh.

I have spoke with some IC inspectors about our mesh network usage and remote radio station operation to ensure we were operating lawfully. They were quite interested into the mesh part.

Like it has been reply earlier, ask more specifications about what is wrong and address the point. But be aware that older people not into technologies will be hard to convince.
 
VA7EFZ
thanks, I have been looking
thanks, I have been looking on the map at all the Canadian nodes and am glad to see its really starting to grow in Canada.  Yes good point about encryption. thanks VA2XJM
 
va3nka
There is something i don't quite understand
I may be completely misinterpreting this, but: 

If i buy commercially available equipment (say Ubiquiti Nanostation) and create a point to point bridge, I am using it not as amateur radio operator. 
The fact that i will flash the units and change the firmware to AREDN (not changing the frequency or TX power), wouldn't it still be considered as standard use? 

I have a wifi router at home, i flashed the factory firmware with dd-wrt - significantly expanding the capabilities of the router (2.4Ghz and 5Ghz), but i am not using it as an amateur radio operator, rather as a standard user. 

My point is, if we are using standard commercial equipment, only tweaking the software, why do we want to brand it as amateur radio use? As far as i am concerned, it is standard use. The modified software, effectively only adds mesh capability, nothing more, nothing less. 

Ivan
VA3NKA
K6CCC
K6CCC's picture
I don't know the Canadian
I don't know the Canadian laws, but it would not longer be meeting the 802.11 specs which likely makes it no longer legal in whatever the Canadian equivalent of FCC Part 15 is.  However when operating under amateur rules we don't need to comply with FCC part 15 rules (or the Canadian equivalent).
 
K5DLQ
K5DLQ's picture
Also, the premise that you
Also, the premise that you would not change freq is a big error.   You absolutely want to get out of the "part 15" bands and into the ham bands be be clear of the noise.
kc8ufv
kc8ufv's picture
As far as any practical use
As far as any practical use of AREDN, you are changing the operating mode of the node from what it's manufacturer specified. Pretty much universally, regardless the brand of hardware, the OEM of the equipment intends for them to operate on 20MHz wide channels, in Infrastructure-AP or sometimes Infrastructure-Client modes. AREDN instead operates them in ADHOC mode by default. Usually, to make the node more effective, we reduce the bandwith to help our signals go farther. While regulations don't normally list the distance the signals can go, the power levels specified are there to help control that. Provided we stay in the limits of our license, our licenses allow us to go beyond what is permitted by unlicensed users. 13cm/2.4GHz happens to have a decent overlap here in Region 2 between Amateur Radio and Unlicensed ISM (Industrial, Scientific, and Medical) use, but that makes it so there is a lot of noise in that overlap.
KD1HA
KD1HA's picture
Let him know that spark-gap
Let him know that spark-gap is still illegal too! 
VE7RQX
AREDN haters, Grrrr

Hi Scott.

Merry Christmas from Parksville.

A couple of points:

(1)  This AREDN mesh "it's illegal" and "it's not HAM Radio" stuff has been around for a while and it's something that that I've worked hard to overcome here in the Oceanside area of Vancouver Island.

It's been almost three years since I introduced AREDN to the local area and, as you can see from the Mesh maps, there is nice growth in the regional network.  The Port Alberni mesh has been up and running for almost a decade and is intimately integrated into the first responder infrastructure in that community, including RCMP.  So, so much for it being illegal.

As well, earlier this month the AREDN mesh link from Gabriola Island to Mt Benson was the only off-island TCP-IP communications infrastructure left standing after the 911 and commercial cell/internet infrastructure to Gabriola was severed during a storm.  While on-island phone lines stayed serviceable, off-island was gone, except for the AREDN link.

Nanaimo and Gabriola Hams immediately stepped in to operate the 911 link from Gabriola Island to Richmond using TCP-IP phones and data links.  They kept emergency comms in place for almost 48 hours until the commercial operators put up temporary cell infrastructure to stabilize the commercial network.

In short, VHF/UHF and HF comms could just not meet the 911 needs of the Island but AREDN could, and given it's use by 911 emergency services, so much for it being illegal!

(2)  A couple of months ago, I contacted ISED (Industry, Science and Economic Development) Canada, the Federal Government agency responsible for Ham Radio, and given the Canadian Regulations requiring Advanced Ham Radio Certification to modify commercial radio equipment and use it in the Amateur Service, as well as similar requirements for setting up repeaters, I received a letter from the Victoria office informing me that Yes, an advanced certificate is required.

Keep in mind that the Regulations and Act are badly out of date and the regional interpretation reflects so called Ham Radio 1, eg. analog radio.  Given I was the one to ask if the Advanced ticket is required, I went and got my advanced ticket, and was not surprised to see that the course was heavily invested in Ham Radio 1 technology.  There was barely a mention of AREDN and microwave tech because the regulations are so badly out of date.

So, your board member is wrong by stating that AREDN is illegal, but there may be some validity to his argument that Canadian Hams are playing in a grey area where AREDN is concerned, ie. the need for Advanced certification.

(3)  RAC (Radio Amateurs of Canada) is aware of ISED's interpretation of the regulations requiring Advanced Certification for flashing and setting up AREDN equipment.  RAC is also advocating on behalf of Hams that, given the Regulations are so out of date, software (ie. firmware) modifications are not regulated and are therefore a loophole for Hams to flash commercial equipment for use on AREDN networks.

Remember, it's a grey area, and both ISED and RAC are looking at AREDN.

(4)  Given I've been on the receiving end of so much "it's not Ham Radio" attitude since introducing DMR and AREDN to the area, I've learned a lot.  The greatest advice I can offer is to not fight with Hams such as your mentioned Board member.  They live in a different world and just don't want to believe Ham Radio 2 is alive.  Arguing with them in community forums is divisive and damaging to the community.

Therefore, I recommend reaching out to the regional community where you'll find a significantly large group of like-minded Hams that are very happy to play in the Ham Radio 2 sandbox, ie. AREDN.  An example is the Vancouver Island AREDN Group, formerly known as the Mid Island AREDN Mesh Group.  Interested Hams from around the Strait of Georgia participate with the lead now coming out of the NARA group (Nanaimo Amateur Radio Association). 

Mid Island AREDN Data Net – Nanaimo Amateur Radio Association (ve7na.ca)

The web page is good starting point.  We also have a ZOOM meeting every second Sunday at 19:00 local time.

73
Ron  VE7RQX
 

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