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What's better than the Microtik LHG 5 Ghz XL?

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Sat, 03/19/2022 - 23:51

#1

km6zpo

km6zpo's picture

What's better than the Microtik LHG 5 Ghz XL?

I'm helping a friend with get mesh setup at his house. We have tried the Microtik LHG 5 Ghz XL version for a point to point at it's highest power level and am finding it's just below the SNR needed for a solid connection (averaging 25 SNR, 84% LQ, 2% NLQ). The location is smack dab in the middle of two sector antennas, both of which are pointed about 45 degrees away from his location in Yorba Linda:

KE6BXT-PleasantsPk-M5R-NE
http://ke6bxt-pleasantspk-m5r-ne.local.mesh:8080/

KE6BXT-PleasantsPk-M5R-SW
http://ke6bxt-pleasantspk-m5r-sw.local.mesh:8080/

Due to HOA rules we can't put the antenna up any higher than it is now. The location on the house is as good as it's going to get (we tried other spots). So I'm thinking at this point that the only solution is better hardware. With that in mind, what's the best dish out there? We're willing to try anything that has a return policy.

Also, on a sidenote, would changing his dish from 10 Mhz to 5 Mhz help with this issue?

---mark, KM6ZPO

Sun, 03/20/2022 - 00:40

#2

K6CCC

K6CCC's picture

The RB-LHG-5HPnD-XL will get

The RB-LHG-5HPnD-XL will get you 3 dB more TX power.
A Rocket will give you 2dB more TX power, but it can have a larger dish (which also helps RX).
That NLQ sucks.
Going to a narrower bandwidth would help, but the other end also needs to be at 5MHz BW - which is not likely to happen..

Sun, 03/20/2022 - 00:47

#3

km6zpo

km6zpo's picture

Thank you

We have the largest Microtik dish - the XL. So I guess we need to find a larger dish and match it up with a rocket.

Thank you.

Sun, 03/20/2022 - 02:05

#4

k1ky

NLQ is the issue - another 3db won't get it

Looking at your Received Link (LQ) quality, there is quite a mismatch compared to the Neighbor Link Quality (NLQ) which means that the other end isn't hearing you near as well as you are hearing it (82% vs 2%). This indicates that either your output power is low compared to the other end or the other end is experiencing some overload/desense. You might try rotating your dish (changing polarity) and check your aim to peak up the received signal on the other end. Can you tell what the noise level is at the receiving end?

Sun, 03/20/2022 - 09:42

#5

AE6XE

AE6XE's picture

The noise at Pleasant Pk site

The noise at Pleasant Pk site has made it more difficult to receive signals in recent times. Hence, partly why the 2% NLQ. There's also a 3GHz option, could be a Nanostation attached to a DirecTv reflector dish. Possibly more mounting options. Check out the coverage maps, link at bottom of this page:

https://sites.google.com/site/orangecountymeshorganization/orange-county-ham-mesh-map/pleasants-peak

Joe AE6XE

Sun, 03/20/2022 - 09:50

#6

nc8q

SNR needed for a solid connection

Hi, Mark:

An SNR of 25 dB is superb!
A LQ or NLQ below %100 is cause for concern.
I have a pair of RB LHG HP5 XLs with SNR of ~24 dB, %100 LQ/NLQ, ~78 TX Mbps.
A NLQ of 2% indicates that there is an RX issue at the other end.
Accounting for other same-site transmitters, my 'other end' is 1 of 7, 5 GHz AREDN radios.

I hope this helps,
Chuck

Image Attachments:

Sun, 03/20/2022 - 11:44

#7

km6zpo

km6zpo's picture

How much ground clearance is needed?

I mentioned the HOA limitations. What concerned me was the height of the dish vs the neighbors roofline and a small tree. The dish is exactly pointed. We used the time generator to tweak the angle up/down and side to side. Beyond the yard is a wall. It's not directly in the path but it's probably within the fresnel zone. The neighbors roofline might also be in that zone. Do we truly believe that getting that antenna up higher would help?

---mark, KM6ZPO

Mon, 03/28/2022 - 13:52

(Reply to #7) #8

nc8q

Do we truly believe that getting that antenna up higher would he

Do we truly believe that getting that antenna up higher would help?

Hi, Mark:

Yes.

Chuck

Sun, 03/20/2022 - 12:41

#9

K6CCC

K6CCC's picture

Want to try 3GHz?

Mark, If you want to look at the 3GHz option, I have several 3GHz Rockets that are not doing much of anything. The RocketDish is a little larger than the Mikrotik XL, but I would have go out to the garage and measure them or look up specs to tell you how much.

Sun, 03/20/2022 - 12:41

#10

w6bi

Satellite Dish

Mark, HOAs can't prevent satellite dishes from being installed. How about a Mikrotik LDF 5 installed at the feedpoint of an old satellite dish? It'll give you 23-25 dBi gain and no one will ever notice it's not pointed at a synchronous satellite

Orv W6BI

Mon, 03/21/2022 - 07:33

#11

nc8q

2% NLQ

Mark:
I think that it is unlikely to fix the 2% NLQ by making changes at the HOA afflicted end.
A dish has less gain at 3 GHz than it does at 5 GHz.

Chuck

Mon, 03/21/2022 - 17:48

(Reply to #11) #12

AE6XE

AE6XE's picture

Given the noise in recent

Given the noise in recent times at Pleasants Pk, 3 GHz is the best option. The Irvine IDEC group was not able to effectively use the SW 5GHz and now uses 3GHz.

Joe AE6XE

Tue, 03/22/2022 - 11:44

#13

km6zpo

km6zpo's picture

Is 3Ghz phasing out?

Several have mentioned the 3 Ghz antennas a few times. I thought we were told to stop using 3 Ghz? Can somebody clarify with a backup of the FCC notice?

As of right now, the RBLHG-5HPnD-XL is connected to KE6BXT-PleasantsPk-M5R-SW with 95% LQ, 1% NLC and 0 speed.

We tried the Mikrotik LHG 2 RBLHG-2nD to connect to AE6XE-PleasantsPk-RM2. That barely made a connection - just not enough power.

We have a RBLHG-2nD-XL en route - it will be a couple weeks to get that one. Those are hard to find.

You know, I've never really had good success connecting to the MESH. It's tough to find spots within Orange County that are line of sight, have no buildings or small hills in the way and within range of the mountain top nodes. Here's a few others I have tried that also did not work: TP-Link CPE210, CPE510 and CPE610. I've put a lot of time and money into making this work as a proof of concept for my local RACES org. It's not looking good.

---mark, KM6ZPO

Tue, 03/22/2022 - 11:53

#14

K6CCC

K6CCC's picture

Only the upper part.

Several have mentioned the 3 Ghz antennas a few times. I thought we were told to stop using 3 Ghz? Can somebody clarify with a backup of the FCC notice?

Only the upper part.
https://www.arrl.org/news/amateur-operation-in-3-45-3-5-ghz-segment-must...

Wed, 03/23/2022 - 17:00

#15

KV3T

I recently installed a LDF5

I recently installed a LDF5 with the Winegard DS-2076 dish. As I understand it should have a few more DB than the LHGXL. I had a 1M dish also, that would have been even better, but it proved impractical to install at my QTH.

More info here: https://www.arednmesh.org/content/lhgxl-vs-ldf-7-meter-dish

Thu, 03/24/2022 - 11:54

#16

K9CQB

K9CQB's picture

I try to avoid using 5MHz BW on MikroTik gear

Mark,
I often run into issues when going down to 5MHz wide channels on MikroTik gear. I would avoid doing that.
-Damon K9CQB

Mon, 03/28/2022 - 11:51

#17

km6zpo

km6zpo's picture

3G was the answer

Thanks to Jim (K6CCC), for letting us test his Rocket M3 and dish. It was the answer at my friend's location in Yorba Linda to connect to Pleasant's Peak. NQ was 99% and NLQ was 96% with about 22 Mbps with the dish propped up on a ladder. Now I'm hoping my friend will complete the transaction and leave a 5 Ghz node up pointed out toward Yorba Linda and Anaheim Hills to fill in that gap.

---mark, KM6ZPO

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