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Nodes with no lat/lon

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w6bi's picture
Nodes with no lat/lon
The mapping software that we're deploying is steadily reaching out farther and farther.  We're finding quite a few nodes that don't have lat/lon set, and without those the mapping software can't place your node on the map.

If your node is in this list, please ensure you've got its lat/lon set.

Note - if you have multiple nodes at the same site, offset their latitudes a bit so they can be differentiated on the map.


KE6BXT-LVQTH-M5NS-XW-74-147-33 0 0
K6AH-SleepingIndian-East 0 0
NH6WR-NB5-02 0 0
WE6ER-NBM5-MV1 0 0
KA6ECT-PAS-NE-RM5-GPS-42-127-62 0 0
AE6QU-M2NB-LWV-DISH-28-96-78 0 0
AG6IF-92592-BUL5-01 0 0
KI6RIV-92595-LM2-01 0 0
N6EKC-NBM5-1 0 0
ag6if-92592-nb5-omni-01 0 0
K6SGB-AR-102-107-94 0 0
KS6RFI-LWV-60-52-135 0 0
af6yn-M3NBtoPleasantsPk 0 0
WA2KWR-26 0 0
KA6ECT-PAS-NBM5-60-241-34 0 0
KK6RUS-M5AG-LWV-136-172-52 0 0
KE6BXT-W6HRO-M5R--149--252-212-68 0 0
AG6IF-92592-M2-01 0 0
AG6IF-92592-ARR-01 0 0
KF6TIM-M3NB-70-236-209-QTH 0 0
WA6RUZ-30-M3NS-QTH 0 0
ag6if-92592-arr-02 0 0
ag6if-92592-arr-03 0 0
AJ6B-M2NB-74-127-87 0 0
KK6EZP-Radio 0 0
NH6WR-NB5-01 0 0
KE6BXT-RedCross-M2NB 0 0
W6JDG-AR-104-255-77 0 0
KF6QVR-003 0 0
KE6BXT-RedCross-M5R 0 0
AE6QU-QTH-M2NB-26-67-39 0 0
W6GSW-NSM2-88-54-64 0 0
ag6if-92592-arr-06 0 0
WD6EBY-test-001 0 0
KA6ECT-PAS-SE-RM5-GPS-42-129-169 0 0
KA6ECT-ARHP-76-210-212 0 0
AG6IF-92592-M5-02 0 0
K6AH-AR-Test 0 0
WE6ER-NSM3-TC3 0 0
F4BWG-RM5 0 0
W6GSW-AR-76-185-191 0 0
N0PRO-ARHP-Portable 0 0
KJ6LV-VC-LeisureVillage-2G 0 0
KK9DS-03-M5 0 0
WB6LVI-M2NS-LWV-76-143-209 0 0
W0AKO-M101 0 0
KI7FTI-AG-East 0 0
AB7C-Loco-W 0 0
WB9KMO-RM5-S 0 0
Its possible some individuals
Its possible some individuals not want to share their Lat/Lon,  there is no requierment that every node does have it set (and no plan that I am aware of to make it mandatory).

"Note - if you have multiple nodes at the same site, offset their latitudes a bit so they can be differentiated on the map."
I'm going to disagree with you here, if a user does enter a lat/long it should be as exact as possible as lat/lon on a good mapping software needs to be accurate.  If we put false data in then future mapping projects (like automated RF coverage area calculations) become corrupted.  The only exception is that we follow the APRS standard in that by entering less digits of precisision you cut out accuracy and this can be detected by mapping software to show a radius around the station location and exclude the station from any calculations as its true coverage is not known.

In addition knowingly setting a false lat/lon could also be deamed a violation of Part 97.113(a)4 which proibits false or deceptive messages from being sent.
w6bi's picture
More on lat/lon
I'm going to disagree with your disagreement, Conrad :-)     An offset of a fifty to a hundred feet or so is trivial, and contributes to ease of maintenance of our network.
Besides, it's obvious from the DtD links displayed that they're co-located.
"An offset of a fifty to a

"An offset of a fifty to a hundred feet or so is trivial,"
100 feet is just shy of 110 wavelengths on 5.8GHz.  100 Feet is the difference between a building blocking a 90 degrees ray to the south or blocking a 90 degrees ray to the south east. 100 feet is the difference of being at 6000ft or being at 4000ft above sea level on the mountain,  The list of changes that 100ft does is VERY significant.  I usually map down to the meter or even 1/3 meter when I calculate my links on Radio Mobile. 100ft is the difference for me to cover all of San Diego county from a site on Palomar Mountain and barely being able to cover 200 feet away. When 3 feet is the difference of me making a link and not making a link, even 10 feet is far from trivial. 50 feet is sometimes the difference between my north facing node and my south facing test node on my house (I don't often run 2 but sometimes I do) how does a user know that its really 50 feet away and not just offset for your map when users start being encouraged to put false info?

"Besides, it's obvious from the DtD links displayed that they're co-located."
Absolutely false. As the lead programmer who wrote the DTDLink specifications I can tell you there is no guarantee to this, it may have been designed that way to some degree but was never hard locked that DTDLinked nodes are co-located. I specifically deigned it so a node would not necessarily be co-located if it had a reliable hardwire link, this could be miles with fiber optics or leased line, or just feet with copper Ethernet connection.. A human may be able to guess on this but software would have no clue about this. I've also seen some HAM's up your way abuse the DTDLink system to route over far distances, they show DTDLink but they are not co-located.

"and contributes to ease of maintenance of our network."
How does putting false data contribute to ease of maintenance of your network?  I can see how it contributes to allow you not to have to spend the time to program additional features into your map software to provide a break out (its the same flaw we have on the AREDN live map and why we recommend KML files instead) but I can't see how it aids the network itself, all I see it do is hinder the network long term because it means we can no longer trust anything a user puts into the node information screen. Plus 100 feet is hardly visable on the map untill you soom in to peak zoom levels meaning it does nothing for users untill they zoom in, when a breakout on the map would actually make it more obvious at all zoom levels.

PS: I've received contact in the past about you group contacting ham's down my way, they have expressed great disapproval about the group up there trying to force the standards the map project up there runs on the mesh networks down here. I managed to calm them down (told them there was no requirement to follow the naming standard trying to be forced upon them) but it ruffled some feathers with my local hams, I get a feeling this post will do the same (it sure has ruffled my feathers.)

NOTE: This post contains personal opinion and should not be treated as an official statment or policy of the AREDN project.
kg6wxc's picture
wow... My mapping scripts do differentiate between dtd links that are miles and miles apart vs. ones that are very close together, precisely for the reasons mentioned above, they *are* different types of links. DtD abuse? Hardly. If the user chooses to have exact coordinates for multiple nodes, that's just fine. You can have the exact location in the node and change it on my map without having to change anything on the node itself... I know that's probably not good enough for some (obviously), too bad. Come help write some code or deal with it! Also, just to get on the record, I am not aware of *anything* to do with asking people to rename nodes due to my mapping software. Whatever that was had nothing to do with the map, and probably had to do more with trying to not have a humongous list of junk to look at when your just trying to find the resources around you... I don't know tho...
How I get the Lat/Lon and Grid Locator

I know there are many ways of getting the LAT/LON (and Grid locator) of a location but currently I like to use the following site:

What I do is zoom out from the default of Paris them move the map to the USA then zoom to the location I want.  If I cannot recognize the area, I may also look at it in Google Maps to gain more familiarity with the local area.

Then I zoom in real close and when I see the location I hit the left mouse button for that point and a three line window pops up for that location.  I mark those three lines, copy then paste into a text editor and save for reference.

If for example, a node was placed at the White House "Press Briefing Room", it would like like this:

     Longitude : -77.03725 W (-77° 2' 14'' W)
     Latitude : 38.89766 N (38° 53' 52'' N)
     QTH locator : FM18LV

Before I save it, I will manually convert the two rightmost letters of the "QTH locator" lower case (LV becomes lv in this example).

The nice thing is the LAT/LON numbers (with minus signe) easily and directly go into the AREDN node.  And the locator also does.  Note that the AREDN node requires the two lower case letters in the locator.

In the node Setup:
    Latitude.........paste: 38.89766
    Longitude......paste: -77.03725
    QTH locator...paste: FM18lv
Don't forget to hit "Apply Location Settings" then "Save Changes".  Then do a Reboot.

Saving these locations to a text file is good for the cases where I have to reload or otherwise re-setup a node again.

I hope this may be of use to folks...
73 -- Mike ab4yy

Nodes Not Showing Up On Map

I uploaded my two nodes about a month ago with Lat, Long, and grid. They have not shown up on the map?

K5DLQ's picture
KG5RDF, your Nanostation and
KG5RDF, your Nanostation and your AirRouter are pinned in the middle of China.  You probably meant to put a -95.0150 as your longitude, but, you put 95.0150.
KG5RDF, your Nanostation and
K5DLQ, Thanks you are correct. Updates made.
Might be nice to include azimuth for plotting as well.

I was thinking it would be nice to include azimuth for plotting as well. in that way "360,N,NW,W,SW,..." etc, etc could be represented on the map plots using different icons for sites using sectors versus an omni in google maps. As for those that wish to not have their exact location, drop the accuracy by dropping digits off the end of the lat/lon as done in APRS.

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