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High Speed Backbone Nodes

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N8RLW
High Speed Backbone Nodes

Hello Members,

My day job is a network engineer/security engineer.    I have been reading up on the network setup for AREDN but still have a few questions about how it operates and a few feature questions that I can't seem to locate in the forums.  So here we go.

1.  How do you setup high speed backbone with this system?   I see via the documentation you can setup access points but what is the best way to setup high speed links between sites or AP points.   I think of high speed as 100 Mbps or greater on a backbone.   Can you combine links say one is the upstream and the other is the downstream?

2.  When distance is an issue is there a way to setup a node to become a bridge to keep the signal strength up and thus the speed up?   Similar to how a ham radio repeater might have a RF link between sites to get it to the system when a 50 watt link will not get it directly?

3.  Is there a way to deploy the nodes via static IP's vs having a DHCP setup turned on.  I'm use to assigning the IP's in a regular system so I know where the nodes are at in the network and if the device reboots I don't have to worry about it getting a new IP by accident or the wrong IP.

4.  Monitoring the system seems like a good idea to do but I have read it might eat up a lot of bandwidth?   Does the system have SNMP available to poll the nodes?   This goes back about setup static IP's as polling the node you know which one it belongs too.

Thanks!

Steven Harvey
N8RLW
Mount Vernon, Ohio
 

nc8q
nc8q's picture
High Speed Backbone Nodes

Hi, Stephen:
 'High Speed Backbone Nodes '
My definition of a backbone is a linear end-to-end network wherein each node communicates with its neighbor node and every 'backbone' node is on the same channel.
Is this what you seek?

"I see via the documentation you can setup access points"
Nodes may be configured as a Wi-Fi Access Point, a Wi-Fi Client, or a node.
(Some indoor devices have 2 radios and one may be configured as a node and the other a Wi-Fi AP or Client.)

"what is the best way to setup high speed links between sites"
IMHO, Point-to-point links on a non-shared channel.
"or AP points."
APs do not communicate with APs, only clients.
AREDN nodes are in 'ad-hoc' state.

"I think of high speed as 100 Mbps or greater on a backbone. "
These devices use 801.11n, so, yeah, 100 Mbps is high speed. (Absolute maximum is 144.4 Mbps(raw).)
"Can you combine links say one is the upstream and the other is the downstream?"
Call them what you want. These links are radio circuits on the same channel/bandwidth so figure half-duplex.

"When distance is an issue is there a way to setup a node to become a bridge to keep the signal strength up and thus the speed up? "
There is extremely low latency. I see no advantage between a bridge and a back-to-back router.

"Similar to how a ham radio repeater might have a RF link between sites to get it to the system when a 50 watt link will not get it directly?"
I am ignorant about what a 'system' is in repeater RF links.

"Is there a way to deploy the nodes via static IP's vs having a DHCP setup turned on."
DHCP plays no part in AREDN node-to-node linking.
The firmware 'system' is intended to be auto-adaptive discovery and routing, thus
there are no 'Network Engineer' knowledge requirements nor Network Engineer programmability.

"I'm use to assigning the IP's in a regular system so I know where the nodes are at in the network and if the device reboots I don't have to worry about it getting a new IP by accident or the wrong IP."
The ARDEN 'system' will break you of that good habit. ;-)
Note that this (AREDN) is an open system an assumes that
a new node may appear at any time or an existing node may disappear.
AREDN firmware will, automagically, attempt to recover.

"Does the system have SNMP available to poll the nodes?"
Yes.

"This goes back about setup static IP's as polling the node you know which one it belongs too."
Every node must have a unique domain name (Node Name) when set up.
AREDN firmware will assign an IP address, but you may override.
Again, this is intended to be an open system, so letting Non-Network Engineers assign IP addresses may not prove fruitful. :-|
I hope this helps,
Chuck
 

kj6dzb
kj6dzb's picture
I just took this setup off my

I just took this setup off my bench it will soon be deployed, at a site with 3 independent ptp RF Backbone links. One is on radios 60ghz and the other 2 on 5ghz radios. 

Using the Rocket 5AC Prism Gen2 im expecting 662Mbps 80MHz --- 74Mbps 10MHz @55km.

and LiteBeams 5AC G2 expecting 66Mbps @ 10mhz --448Mbps @ 80mhz @28.4km.

The AIRFiber 5xhd out preforms the Prism equipment for thruput 1094Mbps @ 100MHz ---138Mbps @ 10MHZ @ 55km.

--ANTENNAS--
I looked at the AF-5G34-S45 (34dBi) and The MonsterDish (37dBi) but the cost for 3dbi isnt worth the gain for our path loss.

Configuring the stock LiteBeams 5AC G2 to pass the DTD tagged packets, and for the LiteBeams 5AC G2 to sit on the Mesh LAN, was not difficult. It dose require an edgeswitch.   

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kc8ufv
kc8ufv's picture
The way I see it, for mesh to

The way I see it, for mesh to work, all nodes need to be on the same channel/ssid. That said, the concept of "backbone" links is more of providing shortcuts across the network, especially if they are co-located where desired services are (such as a master PBX or a meshchat file server). Those backbone links will usually be on a different band, and higer profile 

On the mesh side of each device, all IP addresses are static, though the nodes will try to produce unique addresses with a formula built in to the firmware. It may not always do that successfully, as it's trying to generate a unique 24 bit address (AREDN Mesh uses the 10. RFC 1918 address space) from a 48 bit number. The node will prepopulate the generated IP address, but can be overriden if needed. It is generally recommended to NOT Change the address unless a conflict occours. 

DHCP is only used from the node to the clients, and it can be turned off on a node if desired. 

kj6dzb
kj6dzb's picture
We will be providing some

We will be providing some major bandwidth thru the Bay and over a hill for: DATV video, mesh DTD, EchoLink, and what ever eles arises.    

AJ6GZ
Stuff

Backbones. A backbone RF node basically would be any link that is not designed for end user access and is in a place of traffic aggregation like a hilltop or link to another city. But there is no hard rule. It's up to you and fellow hams to design it before building it! In So Cal we have a number of backbone links on 3Ghz (for how long?!) with only two radios on the link, on 5Ghz AREDN nodes with carefully chosen channels, and one group is using a private non-ham RF network in places and uses the AREDN tunnel functionality to link AREDN nodes. A tunnel lets you link two nodes over "anything" as long as it's routable. The DtD interface can also be used to link over any isolated network, from a simple ethernet cable, 3rd party point to point RF link, even dark fiber. Similar to a tunnel, but it does expect to be on the same subnet. There should be no reason to have unidirectional links. If you wanted to aggregate links that would outside of the scope of AREDN firmware, but if you present a 'pipe' to a node, a tunnel should run over it.

Distance. Long distance hops are best done with two back-to-back nodes on different frequencies at the middle site(s). Trying to use a single node as a 'repeater' reduces performance. Plus you'd need a wide beamwidth antenna which of course doesn't play well at long distances. Of course this is exactly what we do on short-medium distance sector nodes!

IP's As mentioned above, the RF interface of the node is automatically assigned from 10/8 and should not be overridden. For the LAN interface you are assigned an automatically-generated subnet (/27, /28, /29, or /30) from the same 10/8. From here you can leave DHCP on, use DHCP reservations, or turn it off and use static. I usually use reservations since it provides a single point of management. However I do have one device that's static cause it wasn't playing nice, but I still make a reservation for it. Makes configuring mesh services easy.

SNMP Yes you can install it as an option. If configured with reasonable polling times it shouldn't have that much impact. For most of us a simple ping monitor or 5 minute interface traffic poll would be plenty.

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