I'm part of a group trying to increase the AREDN adoption in New England. One of the problems we've encountering, and which I've heard complaints from multiple people about, is that the hardware list supported by AREDN changes too frequently, and hardware becomes obsolete before we can move through the logistics of getting it deployed in the field.
I understand that one cause of this is the increasing memory footprint of the AREDN image. Perhaps there are additional reasons as well.
It would be great if there would be a way to remain compatible with a wider range of hardware, including older, previously supported hardware, for a longer lifespan. Perhaps it's by having a separate build that stays within a smaller memory footprint.
AREDN is a great initiative, but this issue seems to be a weak spot. Is this something that could be addressed?
73,
--Michael WZ0C
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Hardware obsolescence
Tue, 11/07/2023 - 17:49
#1
Hardware obsolescence
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Don't worry about it that closely. While upgrades can be a good thing, if you have one operating that isn't fully supported by the latest version, you can still keep it online. The protocol hasn't changed (except slightly for tunnels). I still have a few WRT54G units running the old BBHN firmware that I occasionally pull out for demonstration purposes. Sure, when I use those, I have to make sure I'm on a 2.4GHz channel between 1 and 6, but they still work just fine, and actually help create islands of the network, instead of every node seeing every other in small scale demonstrations. I make sure any places I want to demonstrate newer features are more recent hardware and updated firmware. Also, I recommend watching if you have a planned event that you want to use the mesh for, and DO NOT upgrade in the couple weeks before the event, as it can sometimes introduce new features that can pose a training issue.
"hardware becomes obsolete before we can move through the logistics of getting it deployed in the field. "
Hi, Michael:
Please cite an instance of hardware becoming obsolete.
I see that the AirRouter(circa 2010) was still supported as of 2023-10-18.
That is 13 years of support.
How much time do your 'multiple people' need for logistics of deployment?
73, Chuck
Hi Chuck,
This page <http://downloads.arednmesh.org/firmware/html/SUPPORTED_DEVICES.md> shows many devices with a sunset status. They appear to be the devices with 32MB of RAM.
73,
--Michael WZ0C
Hi, Michael:
It feels like you avoided answering my question.
How much time do your 'multiple people' need for logistics of deployment?
More than a decade?
What equipment are the 'multiple people' using that has been rendered 'obsolete' by AREDNMESH?
+1 with Chrissy's comments.
Even the 16 year old Linksys WRT54Gs (circa 2007) are compatible.
+1 with Tom.
The list of compatible devices is changing by increasing.
It seems to me that this is good.
I do not understand about what your 'multiple people' are complaining.
Should AREDNMESH stop adding 'Supported Devices'?
If those among on this forum knew the actual problem/issue, there may be a solution.
If you are seeking assistance, please give more details.
Although, I feel it will be very awkward to find a solution using you as a relay for 'multiple people'.
Please encourage one or all of the 'multiple people' to post the details of their issue directly on this forum.
73, Chuck
Hi Chuck,
Here are some of the dynamics to consider:
* New England topography doesn't have many hills that support AREDN deployments. Deployments are more likely to be on high towers and roofs of tall buildings.
* It can take 1-2 years to get through all of the hurdles to get access to a site.
* The cost per access to a site (climbing a tower) costs thousands of dollars, and owners of sites may required bonded and insured tower climbers.
* Once equipment is installed, it may not be possible to get access to the site again.
So the lifespan of a deployment can be limited by the reliability of the hardware and the firmware support of the hardware. There are a number of devices on the compatibility list which are listed as being in the sunset phase. If support for these devices will be deprecated, then it seems they are no longer viable for long-term deployment. It also brings up the question as to how long support will exist for devices currently supported in production release.
Good to keep adding new equipment to the compatibility list, but may also be good to have a strategy for ongoing support of the older equipment. Thank you for your comments.
73,
--Michael WZ0C
Yep. Tall buildings you can access for maintenance is my preference. I also worry about the devices we're placing on towers as we can't get to them. Last weekend we had lightning take out a Rocket M5 and the only thing that saved us is that the building owner is responsive to our access requests. It only took a few days to get access and I had it diagnosed and changed out in less than an hour. The premiere tower sites are a mixed bag for sure.
Ed
Hi, Michael:
This Forum is a marvelous place to resolve issues with deployments.
https://www.arednmesh.org/forums/deployment
* New England topography doesn't have many hills that support AREDN deployments.
Deployments are more likely to be on high towers and roofs of tall buildings.
Ditto with Ohio and many other places.
This is not unique.
My topology is rolling terrain and forested with mature 70' tall trees.
Our longest link is 13.5 miles, 120' roof-top elevation to 130' ham club tower.
* It can take 1-2 years to get through all of the hurdles to get access to a site.
Purchase equipment after finishing the permission hurdles.
I started improving and building sites in 2019 and my oldest equipment was purchased on November 18, 2019.
It is still 'in-service' and running the nightly firmware (2023-10-18).
* The cost per access to a site (climbing a tower) costs thousands of dollars, and owners of sites may required bonded and insured tower climbers.
Again, not unique.
Perhaps a grant could be sought.
However I do strongly recommend roof-tops. ;-)
* Once equipment is installed, it may not be possible to get access to the site again.
The power and networking switches should at ground level of towers or in rooms of a building.
Typically, only an ethernet cable goes up the tower or out of the room.
Our group was granted access to roof-tops at 2 (different-hospital owned) properties figuratively 'on demand'.
I recommend that you approach hospital related entities as, so far, they seem 'friendly' toward groups that support community service activities.
The services that we offer to the community (and with each other for fun) are not installed elevated on towers.
Re-configuration and firmware updates may be done 'over-the-air'.
Only the radio/antenna devices are physically awkward to access.
73, Chuck
An ever increasing support list sounds like "Progress" to me! We still have several old AirRouters, and 32MB "Legacy" Devices in service, however "the writing is on the wall" regarding their future viability. We have seen good service from these units, but make way for newer, faster, better devices that support better Signal to Noise Ratios with the "AC" devices. We have operated for over 8-10 years with AREDN and we welcome the progress along the way.
Michael, here's another angle.
When presenting about AREDN mesh to hams new to the topic, I always explain that this is NOT radio, it's computer networking. Yes there happen to be radios not wires between stations but the entire philosophy is different.
While we can use a 20 year old dual band radio in our shack so long as we don't want new features ... it will still function well. We can change radio by moving the antenna wire from rig to rig because all that is up in the air is a tuned piece of wire. You wouldn't keep using a 20 year old computer however, things move along, things become obsolete and incapable of being current.
The mesh is not set it and forget it, and even when you have a supported device you have to make sure everyone understands the devices need to be maintained and tested. Some stations here haven't been looked at for years, running old firmware that can't properly function.
Of course nothing I've posted here addresses that you say devices recently purchased are obsolete before they can be deployed. You would have to be very specific what model was purchased what date ... and perhaps someone is selling some older stock?
Ed
Congratulations on your new purchase! It's already being upgraded to a newer model before it reaches your home.