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Anyone ever try Xbox (LAN gaming) using AREDN?

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N3WTT
Anyone ever try Xbox (LAN gaming) using AREDN?
So I been trying to put together some demos to show off what AREDN can do to try and drum up interest in the area. I have some hAP AC Lite (x4,) some gl.inet (x2) an some tp-links (cpe210 x2) to kinda test around the house/neighborhood (at this time only the hap have AREDN loaded.) I went ahead and put a raspberry pi image together with a few basic services like a basic web page. Have 3-4 active nodes in my demo and I can see them as neighbors, I can hit accessed my pi from any node, everything appears working. For the icing on the cake I had a couple Xbox 360's in the closet from when we use to do lan game nights figured I throw that in the mix. But it doesn't mix very well at all! The consoles can't seam to network together. I have tried both consoles hardwired (Ethernet) to a single node and this works, so I know it's not broken hardware. I can also hook each console up to an individual node (lan port 2) an then use a third Ethernet cable to bridge the 2 nodes (using lan port 3 on each node) and this works fine. However strictly using node A to link with node B over the mesh I get nothing. All nodes in this demo are hAP AC Lite's on 2.4 GHz channel -2. One thing I kinda got to work was setting the channel to a non ham bands (channel 9 as the console can not see the negative channels) on the nodes and then connected the Xboxes wirelessly to the hAP AC Lite's. With this demo, though, the nodes are in the same house so I really can't tell for sure if it is a mesh connection due to the close proximity. I unpluged each node one at a time to see if the link was broken and everything seamed ok. I know this is not a common or intended use for AREDN but I really think showing a common device/use may really be of interest to the small group I will be showing. Does this come off as impractical something that may not work? Or should I look to other "fun" uses the project could be used for?
AE6XE
AE6XE's picture
I suspect the xbox's are
I suspect the xbox's are using broadcast packets to find each other.  Broadcasts will not propagate through a mesh node, and are contained to the LAN the device is on.   Look for instructions for xbox to connect across the internet to another xbox by providing an IP address.

Joe AE6XE
N3WTT
I appreciate the response. I
I appreciate the response. I did a little digging and there is something with how the system navagates a network as you can't use a combination of wired and wireless connections so either they all have to be wired to the hub or wireless.there is no direct up connections either I'll tinker still but I think it maybe dead in the water as a demo piece.
N3WTT
Anyone have any substitute
Anyone have any substitute ideas for showcasing AREDN that may draw them into the hobby in general? I was in the mindset of things or services people might interact with already? I knowany clubs are looking for ways to attract younger members in general and AREDN appears to me to be quite modern and relatable.
kc8ufv
kc8ufv's picture
I've had similar thoughts,
I've had similar thoughts, though I was thinking perhaps some of the PC games might work. Not tried any, though
 
N3WTT
Quick side question as I
Quick side question as I continue to explore options here. Is there a software solution to get around how broadcast packets are handled in general? In my research it appears people have used virtual tunneling (bons such as softether, OpenVPN (which works on openwrt if I am not mistaken,) zerotier, ECT. I know due to ham regulations encryption would have to be disabled, however could something be used on the mesh?
AE6XE
AE6XE's picture
To have a given "LAN" span
To have a given "LAN" span across the internet or across a layer 3 mesh network, this could be done by packaging layer 3 IP packets on top of layer 3 IP traffic, or IP on top of IP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_in_IP

This is what ampr.net is doing with ipip protocols across the internet.   I've not looked into this, but you might be able to take a Mikrotik RouterOS or other very smart switch, and configure it such that on one port, a LAN IP address is received from and it is on a mesh node.   Then you allocate the other ports to be this virtual gaming LAN.  There would be 2 of these specially configured switches across the mesh network.   These switches would create an ipip tunnel between each other with a common, e.g. 172.16.x.x/28 network riding on top of this ipip tunnel across the mesh network.   It would act as if the same LAN for all the devices on both ends, subject to the performance of the packets traversing the mesh network. 

Joe AE6XE
N3WTT
Update:
I am adding an update to this message in the small chance someone does a site search and if nothing else some record keeping. TLDR = using Xboxes in this way is a bust.details below. I explored the IP in IP but opted for a simpler solution (IP in IP may work but was a larger project than I was willing to dive into at this point.) Though digging around the web I found some software that was designed to do what I was looking for utilizing the internet rather than the mesh network. The application was called "xlan" and would install on a Windows PC and would detect an Xbox and rout the traffic to other consoles. This software worked sporadically at best. I hooked a PC up to a node and it would detect and list the Mac address of the one Xbox but not another. Often times it would drop and/or refuse to show up as a device on the network. At this point I tinkered around trying to figure out what was going on. The Xbox was assigned an up address from AREDN so I decided to tracert from the computer to the console. And here is where I believe the issue originates. My set up is 4 hap lite nodes distributed though the house and a Windows service tablet for running the software. Even when I hardwire (Ethernet) the console to the same node as the PC the tracert shows a ping of 43 ms. However the Xbox 360 has a hard cap for pings of 30 ms before it self terminates a connection. My thinking is the emulation of a connection is bottlenecked with the software making this an impossibly with what I was using. Maybe a stronger PC I don't know but at this point I am looking at alternatives. I have a more modern PC, a surface tablet and a few raspberry pi's I Amy try to install a game or too as a proof of concept. I know this is probably a unusual use for Arden and not something sought after however in the interest of preservation I wanted to do a small update.

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