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Recomendation for PTZ camera for the mesh

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KD7VEA
Recomendation for PTZ camera for the mesh
so we are wanting to add a PTZ camera to one of our mountain top nodes here in Utah and I am wondering if anyone has a recommendation of a good camera that we can run through the mesh network, and not break the bank.  I would say the highest we want to spend is $200 but would love to spend less.  Does anyone have a model number of one that works well.  Higher MP would be great as it would be nice to actually make out items in the valley a few miles away.
KD7VEA
KG6JEI
Having not owned any myself,
Having not owned any myself, I do recall seeing a number of threads on this subject in recent past. I would recommend "camera" as a site search to get you started if you have not already. 

PS: I would go for optical zoom over a couple MP if you have a choice.  More optical zoom you have the better focused in you will be on an image. 2x zoom = double the MP for that spot. Of course if you can get both that's even better :)
N8NQH
N8NQH's picture
here's the one we are using...
in our area, we have 3-4 of them... but it's at that $200 price point you are trying to avoid:
 
http://www.tim-yvonne.com/ham/mesh/tower-cam/
 
kg9dw
kg9dw's picture
ptz
I'm using this fixed camera: http://amzn.to/2dfrKPx  which is $40.

And this as the pan-tilt-zoom one: http://amzn.to/2dj2Mh0  which is $329. That's the POE+ version, so you'll need a $35 injector or you can use the power supply that comes with it...I think that version is $299. 
w8erd
Camera Address
On your recommendation I bought the non-ptz camera. So far I cannot figure out the Chinglish.
How did you find the IP address of the camera?  Thanks!

Bob  W8ERD
kg9dw
kg9dw's picture
On the CD is a device manager
On the CD is a device manager app. You load that on a laptop on the same LAN (no matter the IP) as the camera. I believe the camera defaults to 192.168.1.150. Open the device manager and then you can go into the LAN configuration and set it to DHCP. I then set a reservation on the mesh node. 
w8erd
Camera Address
Thanks to KG9DW. I now have the Jooan camera working correctly with RTSP.  Wireshark shows that all packets are flowing from the camera to the PC and none in the opposite direction, as it should be.  All UDP. This minimizes mesh traffic.  

The only problem I have found is that you can change the brightness etc using the http connection.  But that then does not carry over to the RTSP stream.
But changing the FPS etc DOES carry over nicely.

Bob  W8ERD
w8erd
Video Cameras
We are trying hard to get cameras that will do RTSP protocol, as opposed to all the HTTP protocol web cameras.
The reason is much less load on the mesh network, since the acknowledgements should be less.
We are working with Ubiquiti cameras because they do RTSP natively and they are an American company and you can actually talk to their engineers,
as opposed to all the Chinese cameras.  But having said that I must say that we have yet to get them working right.
They disconnect after a minute or so.  We continue to discuss this with them and work on the problem.
(They are not PTZ; this is just for general info.)

Bob W8ERD
kg9dw
kg9dw's picture
Both of the ones I linked to
Both of the ones I linked to are best used for rtsp streams. I don't recommend anyone try any of the cameras using http as you have to load unsupported and potentially dangerous browser plug-ins to make that work. Ubiquiti cameras may be the exception. 

If you stick to using VLC, Blue Iris, ispy, or another piece of software that will do rtsp you'll be better off than most. 
w6bi
w6bi's picture
Another one?
w8erd
Ubiquity Cameras I give up

After 3 months of struggle, I have given up on the 3 G2 Ubiquiti cameras I bought, and sent them back to Amazon.

The Ubiquiti engineers have been extremely helpful and worked with me all the way, but nobody here has been able to make them work correctly. They even sent me a G3 camera to try out.  No change.

When used with RTSP, they disconnect after about a minute.  This is true for a variety of video viewer software, running on several different PCs and windows operating systems.  

And they do not do RTSP correctly, according to Wireshark.  They cause a variety of packets to be sent back and forth, whereas they should only send UDP packets from the camera, and cause no acks.

We have tried EVERYTHING. I really wanted to use American cameras, as opposed to all the Chinese cameras.

 

KG9DW recommended a camera from Jooan.  I bought it and it is working perfectly, despite the Chinglish software

and manual. Wireshark says it is working exactly correctly.  It never disconnects. Works with all video viewing software.

 

I discovered Anycam software ($8) which is also wonderful.  Simple and easy to use, unlike VLC which is

overly complicated for this purpose.

 

Bob W8ERD

kg9dw
kg9dw's picture
Great feedback
Bob, good to hear that you are making progress. I would also have preferred to use something designed and supported in the US, but I never found a product that was both reasonably priced and met my specifications. These little cameras are marvels if you get past the lack of documentation. 

73, MB
N8NQH
N8NQH's picture
RTSP ?

I've seen RTSP mentioned a lot (and not just here), and discovered the PTZ camera I have had for 1.5 years is already set up for this; the MFGR even lists the URL:

"rtsp://..........."        

But I never got it to work that way.   Like all others here would do, I dug into Google searches and found many suggestions, like...

'if you use "x" browser, you need "xxx" installed'

or

'so & so browser... need to have "xxx.abc" ran before launching the browser.

or

'RTSP won't work unless the browsers HTML5 is configured to....'

I gave up !   All I can say is that if RTSP is supposed to be a "driver-less" format - allowing video streams to be displayed effortlessly using just your  browser... then it's still years away from being reasonably  implemented.

I just ordered another PTZ camera from China, a newer model than the one I have been using; it too has RTSP compatibility.  But I don't have any faith in that part working; will just probably end up going the "driver" route.
 

kg9dw
kg9dw's picture
plugins
I haven't found a good rtsp plug in for my browser. I use rtsp either with VLC or with the camera management/DVR software that comes with the camera. Blue Iris, iSpy, and a couple of other programs also use rtsp to connect.

If you're trying to use rtsp in a browser, you likely will get frustrated. But try it on VLC or another software program. 

While we are on plugins, please don't be adding these to your production workstations without doing some security checking first! For instance, there is a reason why quicktime isn't a supported plugin for Windows machines. 
w8erd
RTSP vs Browsers
Forget using browsers with RTSP.  Instead use a video viewer program that was designed to do that.  RTSP is a terrible add-on to browsers.
VLC works fine, but is overly complicated. I now recommend Anycam. Costs $8, negligible compared to the cameras.  It is simple to use and works perfectly. 
It can show multiple cameras at once in a "Hollywood Squares: format, and label each video.

Bob W8ERD
AB4YY
I agree with 'RTSP vs

I agree with 'RTSP vs Browsers' being a mess and basically does not work inside a browser.  However browsers are our eyes into the network and thus where the links are seen.  I was using 'Torch', based on Chrome but recently gave up because (1) I could not change the call of my external media player (was Daum Potplayer but wanted to use VLC) and (2) I couldn't figure how I got it to call that external program even after extensive internet searches.  Goodbye Chrome/Torch....at least for now.

I ended up going back to Pale Moon (based on Firefox) where it was super easy to see, add or change the call to the external media player.  By the way, I switched back to VLC as it seems a bit more reliable than Potplayer).  For setting up in the browser, just go to Options and Programs and it is obvious how to change the external program for rtsp.

As a side note, I installed AnyCam and it's GUI is nice and simple.  It is quick and easy to set up 'any' camera.  It seems to have a lot of smarts behind the GUI.  Interesting that in the program directory the install created a VLC directory (C:\Program Files (x86)\AnyCam\VLC).  Is AnyCam basically a GUI front-end for VLC?

BTW, I like/prefer iSpy as it is free and also supports motion detection video-clip saving.

- Mike ab4yy

N8NQH
N8NQH's picture
thanks !
appreciate the advice.

KI0EO
Power to fixed camera

KG9DW & W8ERD, how are you guys getting power to the fixed camera.
Looks like the bullet camera requires 2 amps at 12 volts dc.
I'm concerned about doing POE with that much current.

Thanks !
Don...KI0EO

kg9dw
kg9dw's picture
My bullet camera is located
My bullet camera is located 25 feet from an outlet, so I ran the power separately from the CAT5 on 14 AWG or smaller wire. I'm only feeding it with a 1 amp power supply. The other option is to use a passive POE injector (look them up on Amazon or ebay) where you can inject 12v on the CAT5 and then pull it off with another injector on the other end.

While the bullet camera says it needs 2 amps, it pulls less than 500mA during the day and closer to 700mA at night (because of the IR illumination). 

On the PTZ camera, I'm using the POE+ version and a true $40 POE+ injector. That cable run is closer to 125 feet from the camera location down to the electrical equipment room.
w8erd
Camera POE
The cameras will run at less than the stated voltage.  But in any case we have run them over 50 ft of Ethernet cable with no problems.

Bob  W8ERD
kg9dw
kg9dw's picture
Radios run with less than 24V as well
To Bob's point, the ubiquiti nanobridge M5 radios I'm using run just fine on 12V as long as the cable run isn't very long. My longest at 12V is 20ft I believe. There's other threads on the forum that explain this, but the 24V injectors are so you can go the full ethernet link of 328ft (100m) and still have 10V at the radio. The radios pull a very little amount of power. I think the nanobridge radios pull 300mA if I'm remembering right from the last time I measured. I'm sure RF power settings change the max current. 
KI0EO
Thanks !
Thanks for the replies.
This thread has been a big help.

Don...KI0EO
KI0EO
Camera
Thanks KG9DW !

I'm currently running a mesh node at my residence (bullet M2 with an omni antenna).
Everything here comes down to a Cisco 2950 switch in my shop.
My plan is to mount a camera and bring the cat5 back to the shop.
The camera will connect to a switchport that is on the Bullet VLAN.
For power, my plan is to put a POE splitter at each end.
I'm assuming the splitter will isolate the power from the Cisco switch.
Thoughts ?

Thanks !
Don...KI0EO

 
kg9dw
kg9dw's picture
That's perfect.
That's perfect.

The POE splitter I've been using is from ebay. Here's an example. Amazon also has them as do other ebay sellers if you don't want to wait for one to arrive from China. They are very simple. There are also the type that have a CAT5 jack, a CAT5 plug, and then a radial power connector. Those work fine as well. 

You're on your way....have fun!
 
KI0EO
Quicktime plugin
I've got the JOOAN camera up and running and have it set up on the mesh.
The problem I'm running into is when I click on the link, under mesh status, and the GUI opens it wants me to install a quicktime plug-in.
I can run the camera using the CMS software, iSpy and AnyCam.
Is there a way to allow the camera to use a different plug-in?

Thanks,
Don...KI0EO
 
KI0EO
On a side note.
On a side note.
I've downloaded the latest CMS software and it seems "faster" than using iSpy and VLC.

Camera is working great on the mesh, just have to figure out how to advertise the link or better yet, make it clickable but I believe that will be a vendor issue.

Don
 
w8erd
Quicktime plugin
It sounds like the mesh link method wants to start up CMS. This is not what you want because that will use HTTP for the connection.
You want to be sure that you run Ispy or Anycam at your end, connected via RTSP.  I am not sure if the mesh link method will do that, but then I don't know 
enough about it to say.  It may be that you have to start the RTSP viewer manually and enter the camera IP address as given by the mesh link.

Bob  W8ERD
 
KI0EO
Thanks Bob,
Thanks Bob,
That's what I have been doing.
I have all the viewers working, just need to figure out how to advertise the RTSP link on the mesh.
Tried putting it in the host name field and uncheck "link" but it doesn't like it.

Don...KI0EO
VA3BCO
Same camera advertising issue

Hey Don,

I am having the exact same issue.  I just bought the JOOAN camera.  The initial setup was tough as the device manager software didn't have any option to switch to DHCP.  I had to find a buried submenu in the CMS to make the switch.  Eventually, I got it configured and functional so I could add it to my node and view it through the CMS as well as Anycam (by directly entering the AREDN provided IP address).

When I try to advertise the camera however, the web browser just launches the built-in camera webpage which is all in Chinese and only renders with a couple of buttons and non-functional plug-ins (on Chrome).  Would love to find a way to advertise this camera in a way that works.  Expecting other nodes to know the IP address and use viewing software (like Anycam) seems like a let down.  I've been reading through posts like http://www.aredn.org/content/ip-cameras  where KJ6DZB shows the format of an RTSP URL but like you...can't figure out any way to get this into the advertised services.

Brian VA3BCO

K5DLQ
K5DLQ's picture
you can put RTSP in as the
you can put RTSP in as the advertised service so people can see it, but, don't check the "make Link" checkbox.  If that is checked, your WEB BROWSER will attempt to load it and browsers dont support RTSP.

(Welcome to Chinese-camera-land...)
 
KG6JEI
Actually your browser should
Actually your browser should launch whatever is configured as the RTSP handler (same as with SIP:// ).

This could be virtually any program, but depends on the user having the appropriate software installed (which is fine in my opinion considering even if it isn't a link they will still need the software install.)

In Windows this is usually handled seamlessly by the software developers, in *nix OS it sometimes isn't as streamlined (but its gotten much better over the years)
K5DLQ
K5DLQ's picture
agreeed.  if there is
agreeed.  if there is software installed to handle it (ie.  VLC) and your browser has a registered protocol handler for it...
All browsers seem to be different.
KI0EO
I've tried posting the URL in

I've tried posting the URL in the advertised service and leaving the link unchecked but unfortunately my RTSP URL has underscores in it.
I keep getting a "not allowed" message.
Reading through help file 3.16.1.0 it appears that underscores are not allowed.
The camera does work quite well using the CMS software.
It also works well with VLC but has a slight delay that doesn't appear in CMS.

My next hurdle is to set up a file server.
I'll post a document on the server with instructions on how to view the camera.
For a cheap Chinese camera, the JOOAN performs better than expected, but you do get what you pay for.

Don...KI0EO
 

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